Facts About PACs Podcast
The Facts About PACs Podcast is the #1 PAC podcast in America. The show is produced especially for the members of the National Association of Business Political Action Committees (NABPAC). Each weekly episode includes a recap of the association's latest activities, actionable intelligence for the employee-funded and business trade association PAC community, and an interview with a featured guest. Show host Micaela Isler is the President and CEO of NAPBAC.
Facts About PACs Podcast
Ep. 39 Hard Data on the PAC Pause | 4.1.21
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Is the pause in business PAC activity over? How will committees resume and what changes, if any, have been made? An in-depth conversation about the process undertaken in Q1 2021 and what comes next for employee-funded and business association PACs with NABPAC Help Hotline leader Amie Adams of Dunn Associates.
You can join the fight to defend employee-funded and association PACs by texting NABAC to 52886. Message and data rates may apply.
SPEAKER_01Welcome back to the Facts About PACs podcast. This show is brought to you by NAMPAC, the National Association of Business Political Action Committees. And I'm your host, Michaela Isler, NAMPAC's Executive Director. It's April 2021, and in the world of business, we are now in the second quarter of the year, three months removed from the attack on the U.S. Capitol that unfolded on the 6th of January. That incredibly painful day is seared into the minds of every American Adam, and the impact of those events have been a powerful force for reflection within our industry.
SPEAKER_00For many companies and their employee-funded PACs, Michaela, the last three months have been a time of assessment. What changes, if any, should we make to our process? Where do we need to improve? Have we heard the stakeholders in our PAC and address their concerns? What actions will we take in engagement with political giving and when?
SPEAKER_01And NAPAC members from across the spectrum of employee-funded and business association PACs have all been hard at work on these questions and so many others. And so today we're coming on the air with some insights and answers.
SPEAKER_00The evidence of a return to more normal operations in politics are growing. The Congress is moving forward and the new administration is tackling pressing issues on many fronts. Stick around for an in-depth discussion on the state of PACs and where we go from here coming up. The Facts About PACs podcast is produced especially for the members of the National Association of Business Political Action Committees. In every episode, we recap this week's NAB PAC activities, share actionable intelligence and best practices, all while connecting the PAC community.
SPEAKER_01Thanks, Adam, and I'm excited to welcome to the Facts About PACs podcast our dear friend, colleague, and PAC expert Amy Adams of Dunn Associates. Amy's voice is a familiar one to so much of our audience. She plays an important role inside NAPAC and unilaterally as an advisor to many of our members. Amy, welcome back to the podcast. Thanks. It's fun to be back. So, Amy, I want our listeners to know that here at NAPAC, we have pursued a vigorous process over the last three months helping our members, the press, and candidates better understand the pause and giving that many of our members took. And of course, preparing for a return to normal operations.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah. And we've had a ton of questions into the PAC help hotline. Glad to see so many members taking advantage of it. But we've had a lot of discussions around conversations with PAC board members and how to review the candidate contribution criteria, PAC budgeting processes, makeup of the PAC board. It's been really fantastic, actually, to see. Obviously, it for many it felt like we were all drinking from a fire hose for the last couple months. But I think folks really have now taken a strong look and done a lot of great due diligence so they can move forward with confidence.
SPEAKER_00The last three months have given me personally an amazing window into how intentional and strategic folks are in building their packs and keeping them healthy. Amy, I've heard you lead so many gatherings of pack managers. And the conversations that folks have had have been one of vulnerability and concern, but also proving that a lot of important steps were taken long ago to bring together a really wide swath of voices within their companies, within their eligible class, and that they were prepared in many more ways than even they understood for some of the scrutiny that we have been undertaking in the last four months.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. I think that um, you know, and there's been this has been a year. I mean, I think that's an understatement, right? Like we've seen a lot with the pandemic, with the protests over social injustice last summer that began there. We often say that running a pack is like running a small business. I mean, these are not folks who are just working nine to five, checking some boxes and going home at night. These are folks who really take the running of these programs seriously and have done some really good thinking far before here about contribution criteria, about the diversity of the voices that took part in making decisions about which candidates the PAC would support. And so I think the nice sort of the silver lining of all of this has been that now the it's not just the PAC directors alone who believe it, but they now have a bigger audience within their organizations who understand the work that they've been doing and why it was so important and have now bought into the importance of it.
SPEAKER_01And I think, you know, at the end of all of this, it's been such an important reflection point. But I think in the end, we're gonna be stronger for this. Whether or not an organization made any changes to their current processes, you know, at the end of the day, they have a better understanding of where they've been and really how they're gonna move forward. And so one of the things, Amy, that we've done, besides just really being on a listening tour and helping our members as much as possible, but we have also taken the time to survey our membership and understand exactly what they have done in this pause. And to your point, it's been incredibly thoughtful. I think, you know, we're gonna have an event on April 13th to really dive into the specifics, but I think there's some things sort of like that the top line learnings that we can take away. And so since you've been intimately involved in this, maybe we could just talk through some of those for our listeners.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I think it was really interesting to get real numbers. I think we talk, you know, we talk through and we've had conversations with folks, but a lot of it was anecdotal until we saw the real data that came through on the survey. I found it interesting that there were about it was fewer than 70% of the packs that had actually decided to take a pause. So while that has been the big story since January, there are actually still quite a few who have been continuing with business as usual. Now, for some of them, business as usual is to step back for that first quarter and sort of review, let the new administration take place. For some, the change wasn't really a change from what they normally would do. But of those who did pause, only half of them really paused to all candidates. There were some who paused to different types of candidates. So it wasn't a complete pause in every sense of the way. But in the factors, the top three factors and deciding on how they were going to begin again, one of the strongest ones was the vote of the PAC board, which as I had mentioned earlier, what is now more diverse because of other um efforts that PAC directors have made. It's the determination of um that after they've done their review of all their contribution criteria and all of the other policies and procedures of the PAC.
SPEAKER_00So many of the folks who are just beginning to understand the real facts about PACs as a result of the pause, and so much of the journalism that's taken a look at our industry, understand that they are not black boxes, that there is an incredible amount of engagement, not just with the solicitable class within a company or even broadly within associations, but among everybody. And as you stated, Amy, 2020 was a year where we went virtual, where as we were disconnected in many ways, especially among PACs, we became a little bit more connected. Conversations were happening, and people were beginning to listen more to what are the fundamental, urgent priorities in our business, in our industry that are going to keep our jobs safe and how we work with government through candidacies to let people know and educate them about what we do and what we need to be successful and support our own communities. That's been just as big a part of taking stock as anything else. And it started in 2020. The pause, now over for so many, has really been a reinvigoration for PACs, for the people who are stakeholders and for the leadership. I think you said it best. It's not just the PAC managers. Everyone's got a skin in the game here, and they're making themselves heard and feeling more comfortable in doing that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think that's right, Adam. And I think the the level of communication, enhanced communication with all employees, but also with the eligible employees has been really great to see. I know Amy and I both have been a part of a number of town halls with our member companies and their employees and their solicitable class talking about not just the events of January 6th, but just really kind of going back to the basics on why an organization is engaged in the political process, why now more than ever. You know, we look at the Edelman studies, we look at the general consensus that businesses and CEOs are critically important in preserving democracy. I think it's a great opportunity for our members to be hearing from the leaders of these organizations and the importance of engaging in the political process.
SPEAKER_00And Amy, you have really been out front with your own clients at the other end of the PAC help hotline for NABPAC for so long, a trusted voice. This idea of two-way communication that leverages the education mission and creates a dialogue. You've helped everybody prosecute this, but you have a great idea about what the benefits have been and how they're actually playing out right now.
SPEAKER_02Oh, absolutely. I mean, I think as as Michaela said, we both have been very involved in a lot of these webinars that have been going on with employees. I think one of the other pieces, too, is that this virtual environment has allowed us to create the conversation with candidates as well and with lawmakers as well. That we were able to, you know, they they didn't have places to go. They were locked down to the lawmakers. And so they were available to then meet with employees, do virtual facility visits, engage more people in the political process because they didn't have to come to Washington, DC to actually meet with these folks, but could meet with them from the comfort of their own home. And I think that's been one of the most fantastic parts about all of this is there's been a higher level of education that's being done with employees, with members, with the broader community. And education, frankly, too, of the lawmakers. They're getting to meet more of their constituents because they're able to do it over virtual.
SPEAKER_00Michaela, you have said repeatedly over these last 12 months that more people have found their seat at the table. They have interacted directly with candidates. They have heard from candidates' committees and political committees and honestly felt engaged in a way that they never had before. These strengths, these seats that have now been pulled up to the table, they'll never be taken away. We've included people and made them feel more connected. And these are the things that are empowering PAC managers to get their programs rolling again. And some of these changes are ones that will last, won't they, Michaela?
SPEAKER_01They will. And I think, you know, talk about democracy and action. I mean, I think Amy hit the nail on the head. You don't have to come to Washington just to be engaged and to meet with legislators anymore. Our employees are highly engaged. And I would even say NABPAC's members are even more engaged than ever before because of this new, you know, opportunity in this platform. And so clearly the employees, we've said this for decades, they want this information, they value the information from their organizations, and we're actually seeing it play out in real time. And I know um Amy can speak directly to just the sheer volume of engagement on some of these uh virtual town halls and uh meetings with members of Congress. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02We have members who both last year and this year too are getting upwards of a thousand to two thousand employees joining for their policy webinars. We're getting engagement and seeing numbers that we've never seen before. And and the virtual platforms are making it possible.
SPEAKER_00One of the things that I have enjoyed the most through the facts about PACs is giving NABPAC in our industry an opportunity to full-throatedly push back on some of the worst disinformation and accusations and misunderstandings about what political activism on the part of employee-funded and business association PACs really mean. We now have educated people, especially journalists, about the fact that our entire space has had their voice suppressed in a way because there has been no increase in donation limits for 40 years. But most importantly, what we've been able to do is show that PACs have a moderating influence, that they are about finding compromise and moving legislation forward, about making communities and laws that help business and therefore families and better jobs, better pay. But trusted sources of information are harder and harder to come by. And sometimes that really means having tough conversations. Our PAC managers have been telling us that one-to-one communication, speaking directly to people who either have heard things that aren't correct or believe something that they don't have all the facts about, can give way to better understanding when you take the time to take that call, to return that call, to share the stuff that helps to elucidate why we do what we do. What do we find in our survey about how having tough conversations can have really beneficial results?
SPEAKER_01I think the results show that we've actually across the board lost very few PAC members within our organizations. To your point, Adam, just because it's on Twitter or in the mainstream media doesn't mean it's truth. And we have heard repeatedly that the one-on-one communications and sort of taking the time to answer the questions, let an employee voice concerns, express some unhappiness. But almost in every instance after those one-on-one conversations, it ends in a really positive way. And the pack manager, as a fellow employee and someone who's part of this organization, can really speak to the truth. And as we always say, the facts and the reality about how transparent and accountable and how regulated we are. It's a lot of work for our pack managers. It takes a lot of time, but I do believe that in the end it's been incredibly powerful.
SPEAKER_02Which, if you think about it as in a tremendous analogy to the whole purpose of the PAC in the first place, is there are a lot of times where lawmakers come to DC, they don't know a lot about an industry, but what they um, you know, they they think they know something. And it's and sometimes they've even, I mean, I know examples of lawmakers who prior to coming to DC or even in the early times of their careers, had been out in front of corporate headquarters protesting over something that they thought the corporation was doing wrong, only to then develop a relationship with that corporation and with employees from that corporation and come to discover that that they really didn't have all the facts and have had since then become really great champions for the industry because they they had the opportunity to learn more. And so, as tough as those conversations are, and as sometimes, you know, I I see a lot of it's it's sort of shocking sometimes what pack directors have to put up with from their colleagues. Um, they often get some really scathing emails that oftentimes get very personal. And yet, once you have that brave conversation, and and these are some PAC directors who will who are brave enough to pick up that phone despite the the rhetoric that they're getting from folks and say, hey, let's have a conversation. And at the end of the day, that's what that's what we're doing.
SPEAKER_01It's I was just gonna say, Amy, it's what they do as an organization when they have their fly-ins. It's it's what the PAC managers are now doing with their eligible employees or member companies or member uh individuals. And it's the same thing NATPAC's been on a mission. I mean, we've been talking about our mission to set the facts straight. And, you know, we've had an opportunity in this virtual environment to reach out to many more elected officials than we ever have before to really talk through the facts about how we're operated and the transparency. And um, and it's it's been an eye-opening year, truthfully, on all of those fronts.
SPEAKER_02There's a reason that there are lawmakers who once said that they wouldn't take corporate PAC money, have changed their minds because they've actually had the opportunity to learn more and get the real the real facts.
SPEAKER_00There are a lot of voices in different sectors that all need to be heard and reconciled. That's the job of policymakers. And the transparency that accords through FEC regulation to the PAC community is one of our greatest strengths. We have been talking about that in 2021 with so many political scientists. And one of the things we've discovered is that the data exists, the compliance elements are there, and so we can do analysis, not just over a cycle or two cycles, but over decades. And that is where we find a lot of information about how PACs not only are moderating, but move towards positive change in our country. It's easy to attack a corporation. It is so much harder when you take a look at those who didn't pause, who have only revved up their engines, because in most cases, those super PACs and other organizations who don't have that transparency feel very little need to stop. They're not held to account. Their donors are not understood. And I think, Michaela, that we have gone through difficult times. We have gone through a process, and as we emerge from it, not only are we stronger, but every step of the way, people can see what was done and what we will now do. And there is nowhere that light is not shining.
SPEAKER_01That's exactly right, Adam. And it's unfortunate. I think it's no secret to at least the two of you that this is, I think, probably where my biggest frustration lies is that while we are the most transparent and we are having the tough conversations, it is because of that transparency that we see these activists trying to use that against us and without the full story, without the full facts. And I really think for all of our listeners out there that that really does make the point that our members and all business packs get in front of their donors, their employees, their members, and they be the ones to be shaping the dialogue and the conversation around this, because in some ways that that transparency is being used against us and incorrectly. And it's it's incredibly frustrating. And I know it's incredibly frustrating for our members.
SPEAKER_00Well, as you said, Michaela, the membership at NABPAC will be gathering this month to take a deeper dive into what we can learn from each other about where all of our PACs are moving, the changes that have been considered, and the process that has revealed that things were actually working well, that stakeholders are enfranchised, and that we can continue to build on what was innovated and brought people to the table in 2020. Amy, why don't you take us through what employee-funded and association PACs are thinking about doing with your organizations and making changes this year?
SPEAKER_02Really broadening their education, not only with candidates and lawmakers, but also with their members, with their audiences. It's about explaining why we care about certain things within the political process, right? It's going deeper. It's talking about how the issues impact an industry or impact a company. It's talking about why the minority leader of the House is such an important role, or why the speaker, uh, you know, the majority leader of the Senate is such an important role and helping people to understand that so that they can rather than trust some other source, they can watch and look at what's happening and have a better understanding for themselves. I think that's the first thing. I think second, they're really looking at expanded representation on their boards, on their employee advisory groups, really coming to terms with the fact it's important to have people from all backgrounds within the organization who are part of the decision-making process when it comes to our political action committees. And then I think the third thing is, and I'm grateful for this, there's finally a recognition beyond just PAC directors for the need for candidate contribution criteria. Now I think PACs realize that you don't have a strong program unless you have done the work to look at your criteria, examine it, determine if it meets your business goals, if it meets your business culture. And that recognition now extends all the way up to the C-suite and now doesn't just sit with the PAC director themselves.
SPEAKER_01Well, thanks, Amy. I think there's so much more that we can dive into as always with you. But I'm looking forward to being able to share some of the underlying data within the survey on April 13th with you. There's so much more we can dive into, but I just want to thank you so much for being with us today. Uh, you are the voice of Napex PEC Help Hotlined and just an amazing colleague. So thank you for sharing your insights with all of us today. And I know that you'll be back on the number one pack podcast in America soon. Thanks. It's always fun to join you guys. And to all our members and listeners who celebrate, I hope it was a happy Passover holiday. And for those who celebrate, I wish you all a happy Easter. Thanks to everyone listening and sharing the number one PEC podcast in America. Facts about packs stands alone in promoting the most transparent and regulated form of political giving. Our association and this show binds our community together, and we are proud to have you with us. Subscribe and share, and we will be back soon with a new episode. Until then, stay safe, stay engaged, and keep moving forward.
