Ep 69 with Dr. Casey Burgat - Director, Legislative Affairs program, GWU Graduate School of Political Management

Be better in your current job and how to get the next one. Inside the PAC Certificate and Legislative Affairs program at George Washington University's Graduate School of Political Management with Dr. Casey Burgat.

Plus, hear host Micaela Isler on the hot new podcast Civic Warriors !

Transcript

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Micaela Isler:

Welcome back to the Facts About PACs. I'm Micaela Isler, NABPAC's, executive director, and I'm joined as always by my co-host, Adam Belmar.

Adam Belmar:

Well, thank you very much, Micaela. I did a double-take this week. You turned up as a featured guest in one of my favorite new podcasts, Civic Warriors.

Micaela Isler:

Right. I like the podcast too. And I appreciate the team at Withum, and the work that they're doing with nonprofits. Great group.

Adam Belmar:

It was a great episode too, Micaela, and I think our listeners would enjoy it. So, everybody, I will leave a link to the Civic Warriors podcast episode in the show notes. But Micaela, listening to that conversation and preparing for today's show, I'm coming to realize how much more encompassing the education mission is when it comes to employee-funded and business trade association PACs, specifically the obligation to share the basic facts about PACs.

Micaela Isler:

Adam, you're spot on be because there really is no way to cut through the noise and the rhetoric when stakeholders don't share a basic understanding of the facts.

Adam Belmar:

Facts like employee-funded PACs and their programs encourage participation in the political process.

Micaela Isler:

Employee-funded PACs educate employees and members about legislation that affects their industry.

Adam Belmar:

Employee-funded PACs encourage Americans to exercise their most important civic duty, to vote.

Micaela Isler:

And facts like these, the Federal Election Commission limit on the amount a PAC can donate to a candidate for federal office is $5,000 per election.

Adam Belmar:

And the Federal Election Commission limit on the amount a PAC can receive from any one individual in a calendar year, $5,000.

Micaela Isler:

And one more critical fact, employee-funded PACs are not corporate giving.

Adam Belmar:

Well, back to first principles. This is what we're all about at NABPAC. And very much the reason that we produce this podcast. Oh, and also it's why we invited Dr. Casey Burgat, the director of the legislative affairs program at George Washington University's Graduate School of Political Management, to join us on this episode.

Micaela Isler:

Understanding why employee-funded PACs are really the most transparent money in politics is fundamental to being a political professional. Coming up in just a minute, we'll speak with an academic leader right here in Washington, DC.

Adam Belmar:

The Facts About PACs podcast is produced especially for the members of the National Association of Business Political Action Committees. In every episode, we recap this week's NABPAC activities, share actionable intelligence and best practices, all while connecting the PAC community. And today's episode is brought to you by Access Marketing Services, from design to podcasts, from infographics to digital, work with a team that leading PACs and government affairs programs call when they need results, Access Marketing Services.

Micaela Isler:

Thanks Adam, and thanks to Access Marketing Services for their support of NABPAC and this podcast. So joining us now is Casey Burgat, Ph.D., director of the legislative affairs program at George Washington University's Graduate School of Political Management. Welcome to the podcast, Casey.

Dr. Casey Burgat:

Pumped to be here. Thanks for having me.

Micaela Isler:

Not many folks know, but Casey's actually my new boss at GW. So we're so pleased to have you on the show. Casey, the average age of a staffer these days is something like, I don't know, 24 years old, what does that say to you about your mission, leading GW's Graduate School of Political Management?

Dr. Casey Burgat:

That training is important, right? That if we have such a young cadre of staffers coming to DC with the best and brightest minds, they're motated, rotated individuals. But at the same time, they're responsible for a whole hell of a lot. And we're seeing this on a national stage, even just as we're sitting here talking with the Ukraine stuff going on.

Dr. Casey Burgat:

That they should be trained to operate in a professional legislature. And there's not many universities with programs like this. There's a ton political science programs. There's a ton of public administration or public policy programs. But that's very, very different than being an actual practitioner.

Dr. Casey Burgat:

And our purpose, our role in this effort is to train people to operate on day one. To inform our policymakers, to inform our policymaking experience, to build coalitions inside and outside of government, to make this a more representative, more purposeful, more thoughtful policy-making world. And that's where we come in.

Adam Belmar:

It is true, Casey, that this area is much more of a practice than just an area of academic study. And I think that that is not lost on our audience. We're going to talk later on about the PAC certificate program and a lot of the professional learning opportunities that exist at GSPM. But let's stick with the students for a second. Beyond the facts and the figures, and of course the historical context that GSPM students get, help us understand how they become effective practitioners? What's going on in those classrooms?

Dr. Casey Burgat:

We want people to understand what is going on and not from an academic perspective. Too often, academics only speak to each other about things that they already agree with each other about. But as we're learning more and more each and every day, not a ton is going right, or at least as intended with federal policymaking. And it is a messy, often uncertain, unpredictable business. And to expect otherwise isn't really that helpful.

Dr. Casey Burgat:

And so we teach our kids, our students, some of whom are not kids at all, but are in these offices right now, kind of nodding their way through meetings or faking it until they make it, we teach them really purposeful and actionable items like advanced legislative procedures. It's one thing to know how Congress works, it's main players and what powers are afforded to certain individuals, it's another thing to actually turn it into practice. And how the filibuster works or how to invoke cloture or very specific items that you would not have a reason to learn outside of Congress or a program like this.

Dr. Casey Burgat:

And so things like budgeting, because in DC, the answer to 99 out of a 100 questions is money. Always. So understanding how the federal budget process works, not only as a means of understanding it as a citizen or trying to affect it, but maybe funneling some money to an important project back home to make a tangible difference in everyday Americans' lives. That's important stuff. And that's where Congress comes in.

Dr. Casey Burgat:

And so adding that to these institutional classes with policy-making specific classes, so classes like Congress and cyber security or Homeland security or foreign policy, very particular issue focused classes. Because this is the NFL of federal politics. And we want people to know how these things work because they're playing with live ammo, this is happening every single day. So to not have our best and brightest trained in very purposeful ways is not worthy of a Congress that I want to support.

Micaela Isler:

Casey, I have said to this PACs in Congress class a couple of times, that I wish that this class existed 30 years ago when I got my start in the PAC in political space. And I have shared with the class that I'm coming at them from a practitioner's perspective, that I want them to be able to step into whatever it is they want to do. If it's in the government affairs space, whether they're on the hill, working for a lobby shop, even if they want to get into the PAC and grassroots profession, that they have a really baseline understanding. It's really one of the most misunderstood industries. It's what I spend most of my time doing truthfully. So do most of our students at GW share these misconceptions when they arrive from your perspective?

Dr. Casey Burgat:

This is where it's important to talk about, there's different tranches of students. There's some that have been in DC and they recognize what an advanced degree will get them in terms of individual leverage with their employer. Maybe to make them more marketable outside of Congress or to a trade association and just kind of buck up their resume.

Dr. Casey Burgat:

The other tranche of students are the more traditional route, right? You're coming from a political science undergrad, or you know that you want to be in DC because you grew up on the West Wing or for whatever it was you wanted to be here. And they made their way here because they are smart and bright and talented individuals.

Dr. Casey Burgat:

So to the former group of students, the ones that have been around, they recognize, they've probably seen those misconceptions. They came here with them, but they have since dispelled them as they got to work on the hill or work with these associations and recognized the actual day to day job of someone like you.

Dr. Casey Burgat:

The second group of students, the more traditional route, they definitely come here with the same misconceptions that everyone's drunk uncle at Thanksgiving has, right? This is just a corrosive industry. It's the drain, the swamp. People, that if we just got them out of here, and their sacks of cash and their bribery tactics, then we can fix everything that's wrong with DC.

Dr. Casey Burgat:

But as you do, spend your day to day working on, as I spend a little bit of my time working on, dispelling those notions and getting people to understand that actually you have people, this is a great form of representation. Unless you're the one walking the halls of Congress, knocking on the doors and informing policymakers of your interests and your policy goals, you want someone to do it for you. And you want them to do it professionally. And they want to group friends together, because if we know anything about politics, it's much easier when you have a group of friends to do it with you.

Dr. Casey Burgat:

These are really effective means of representation. And to pretend that they're otherwise, even though the negative sides get the headlines, to pretend that they're otherwise isn't that helpful either.

Adam Belmar:

Casey, I want to key in on a word that you just used, representation. It's something that's important. We are representing the interests of our corporations or our trade associations when we form a PAC. We are also seeking representation when we think about diversity, equity and inclusion, that's something that is top of mind for us at NABPAC. It is across so much of the business community. I wonder what can you say about DE&I and representation in the classroom and the political profession at large from your perch over there at GW?

Dr. Casey Burgat:

I say all of this as a white dude, and that's that we are horrible at it. And when I say we, I am not specifying on purpose because academia is bad at it. Congress is certainly bad at it. Institutions are bad at welcoming that, though the conversation is starting to shift now, but it's ever too late as all these conversations are.

Dr. Casey Burgat:

I can only speak for my behalf in that we are making a purposeful effort to expand our scholarship opportunities, expand our recruitment opportunities out of the bubble that is DC to historically black colleges and universities. We're trying to develop and institutionalize pathways to our program and to Washington in particular.

Dr. Casey Burgat:

We're trying to reach people at the intern level because we know that the first job in politics or any industry is that all-important first one. For a lot of folks that's internships. And when those are unpaid or they don't pay a living wage, you're sub-setting your population eligible for those to people that can afford it. And we know that excludes multiple populations.

Dr. Casey Burgat:

We're also trying to do better about hiring a more diverse set of instructors so that people see themselves in these positions. They see the importance of mentors and just seeing representation in terms of positions of power or authority, all of that matters.

Dr. Casey Burgat:

And we're trying to do this holistic look at that. And I'll go back to where I started, in that we're not good enough at it yet. It takes a long time to do this within a bureaucracy. Government is obviously a big one of those. GW is another big one of those too. So we're trying to make personal appeals, build relationships, build coalitions, to break down some of these barriers that have for far too long been an obstacle to multiple populations that have been underrepresented for far too long.

Micaela Isler:

And Casey, so much of what you just said really aligns with NABPAC's DE&I goals and mission. We've been on our own journey. And we've had a long time partnership with GW with our John Barren scholarship. We are also as a PAC profession looking to increase our pipeline of diverse professionals that want to move into this space, that may just have never had exposure. I mean, I think about my own journey 25 years ago, never even considered the PAC path because I just didn't know about it. I didn't have any mentors.

Micaela Isler:

And honestly, I think when you called me and we talked about the opportunity for me to go and work at GW and help with this PACs in Congress class, it really did align with NABPAC and our commitment to educating the next generation of political professionals. What should our listeners know about the PAC certification program at GW and other scholarship opportunities?

Dr. Casey Burgat:

Yes. And I appreciate the question. And before we get to that part, I love talking about our program, credit to you of, I called you out of the blue, we had never met, we had never talked, and I had mentioned that this is something that I think would be mutually beneficial for both of our organizations to re-institutionalize and re-invigorate in the modern environment. And you said, yes. There was not even a question. And that's a rare word that you hear around DC. And to have follow up as quick as we made it happen. You can get things done with good people that are motivated. So appreciate-

Adam Belmar:

She's good like that.

Dr. Casey Burgat:

I appreciate that. And I hope that this is just kind of the first opening salvo of what this relationship is. Which leads me to the second part of the question for folks that are listening in that may be involved in similar organizations or trade associations. That we have within the Graduate School of Political Management a certificate, while it's not the full master's, you won't get the fancy letters after your name. What it does do, what it does provide is very concentrated suite of classes to make you better at this job.

Dr. Casey Burgat:

You mentioned that a lot of folks fall into PAC management or fall into trade association skills. And that's true even with our students who think that they're coming here to work in Congress. And while that might be, you develop an issue area expertise, you start working with these coalitions outside government, and they start getting picked off, especially the most capable ones, by these trade associations to have an impact for their organizations. That's how it's supposed to work.

Dr. Casey Burgat:

And so we have a growing need for this certificate, and the DC environment at large has a need for this because they want their employees and those employees for themselves want these skills to make them more effective at a huge part of the DC policymaking ecosystem.

Dr. Casey Burgat:

So classes like legislative politics, which gives you the lay of the land as to who the power players are, the procedures used to get policymaking, what to do if you run up against obstacles within Congress or the administration. And then a very focused set of classes about lobbying or PACs management or ethics in Congress. There's a suite of classes that are very particular set of skills, the Taken method if you will, right? I have a very particular set of skills. That give you this background where you may not be willing or able to commit to the full master's right now, but you can at least have that knowledge base, and especially the GW name behind this new set of skills that you're taking back to your employer and on your resume that makes you infinitely more valuable in your current job or inevitably the one that you're going to have next.

Micaela Isler:

It's an honor, Casey, for me to be a part of the GW team and helping educate our future leaders here in Washington. So I appreciate the opportunity very much. And I do look forward to a reinvigorated partnership. I think there's a lot that we can do together to promote this profession and train the future of PAC professionals.

Micaela Isler:

Professor Casey Burgat, Ph.D., director of the legislative affairs program at GW's Graduate School of Political Management, thanks for joining us on the Facts About PACs podcast. And thanks to everyone downloading and sharing our show. Subscribe and meet us right back here on the Facts About PACs podcast.